Earthlinked 5 Ton Issue
Last Post 28 Jul 2010 06:54 PM by JackH. 85 Replies.
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engineerUser is Offline
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22 Jun 2009 11:52 AM
I have no direct experience with DX but I have a question for the OP the answer to which might narrow down the problem:

The symptom of interest is the "Blazing hot" return line from the ground loop. If the 5 ton unit has been off for awhile (several hours or more) and then turned on does the rise in temperature of the return line to "blazing hot" happen fairly quickly, say perhaps 5-10 minutes, or slowly such as over an hour or more of continuous operation.

If it happens fast I'd look for some refrigerant plumbing problem allowing some or all of the gas to bypass the ground loop. If it happens slowly, taking an hour or more then I'd think about it being underlooped or a ground contact / grout problem.

If you can lay a hand on each loop's supply and return line during operation, feel for temps. Each should be hot going out and cool coming back. The temps on the two ton's system lines are probably a good reference to judge each individual loop on the 5 ton's lines.

I third the motion to try soaking the ground near the loops as a diagnostic test.


Curt Kinder

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill

www.greenersolutionsair.com
joe.amiUser is Offline
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22 Jun 2009 09:18 PM
What might be interesting is the original zone loads. Do you have them? Earthlink only has a 5 ton max.
Still interested in your thoughts on loop pick Clark.
J


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
geo fanUser is Offline
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22 Jun 2009 09:52 PM
6 ton


joe.amiUser is Offline
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22 Jun 2009 10:09 PM
Posted By geo fan on 06/22/2009 9:52 PM
6 ton


Not debating, missed the memo, when did they bring that out?


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
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23 Jun 2009 06:42 AM

 

There are two quick non intrusive things you can look at  .....  There are three sight glasses on the receiver tank....

The level should be in the middle of the middle sight glass when in Heating mode.... You mentioned that
freon was removed because it was seen in the top glass......

Is it in the middle of the middle sight glass in heating mode ?????

And , there is a sight glass near a pressure regulator that had to be adjusted when in the cooling mode....

You shouldn't see many or any bubbles in that sight glass.....

Good Luck

Dave in NH



geo fanUser is Offline
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23 Jun 2009 08:51 PM
The only reason I know it , is my geo ocd

It looks like it has been around as far back ( or further ) as 03
it may only be in 3 phase , but thats one for tuffluck.



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23 Jun 2009 10:14 PM
Posted By geo fan on 06/23/2009 8:51 PM
The only reason I know it , is my geo ocd

It looks like it has been around as far back ( or further ) as 03
it may only be in 3 phase , but thats one for tuffluck.



Was told 5 ton in my 07 training.
j


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
geo fanUser is Offline
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23 Jun 2009 11:07 PM

6-ton (21 kW) EarthLinked® SW-072 units were installed to provide hot water for a new radiant

hydronic heat distribution system.



http://www.earthlinked.com/files/downloads/documents/Newsletters/09Feb.pdf


yeah its just there water heater units, and it does look like 3 phase



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23 Jun 2009 11:27 PM
Posted By joe.ami on 06/22/2009 9:18 PM
What might be interesting is the original zone loads. Do you have them? Earthlink only has a 5 ton max.
Still interested in your thoughts on loop pick Clark.
J
OOOhhhh, GF, since this thread is pertaining to resi, I.... was correct! (king of the thread)
Still curious about the zone loads, but poster did indicate an overcharge.
J



Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
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24 Jun 2009 09:54 AM
No, there is definitely a 6 ton air unit from EarthLinked. We have used them for years. There is 6 ton in any configuration. Water heating, air heating/cooling, air/water heating, water heating/chilling, etc... It has been available at least for 4 or 5 years. And no it's not just 3 phase. It's single phase, 3 phase, 60 Hz, 50 Hz, etc....208V, 230V, 480V, etc.....

I rarely check here any more...suppose I should more often. Anyway,

Back to the thread, with each loop exposed, you should be able to tell what heat is being rejected in the ground with a delta T across each liquid/vapor line of each loop. Your installer, I'm betting it's Al, should be there to test that and be on the phone with EarthLinked at the same time. They'll help diagnose.

On the refrigerant sight glasses... the refrigerant needs to be added to the system on startup in the heat mode to the middle of the middle sight glass. After startup, the level never matters again, as long as there is liquid and vapor in that tank. There should never be liquid above the level of the top sight glass.

For the other sight glass, it depends on the time of year as to whether or not there will be a little or a lot of bubbles present. At this point of the year, there shouldn't be a lot. I still lean toward the fact that the ground loop is most likely not well connected to the earth (not fully/properly grouted).


Clark Timothy (clark@pinksgeothermal.com)
Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!
www.pinksgeothermal.com
jonrUser is Offline
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24 Jun 2009 10:13 AM
> not fully/properly grouted

How does one fix this? Sounds difficult.


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24 Jun 2009 10:47 AM
If this is the case, it most likely needs to be re-drilled. Depends on the type of grout he used in the first place, but most likely he won't be able to clear the holes out to re-grout.


Clark Timothy (clark@pinksgeothermal.com)
Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!
www.pinksgeothermal.com
joe.amiUser is Offline
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25 Jun 2009 08:35 AM
Posted By tuffluckdriller on 06/24/2009 9:54 AM
No, there is definitely a 6 ton air unit from EarthLinked. We have used them for years. There is 6 ton in any configuration. Water heating, air heating/cooling, air/water heating, water heating/chilling, etc... It has been available at least for 4 or 5 years. And no it's not just 3 phase. It's single phase, 3 phase, 60 Hz, 50 Hz, etc....208V, 230V, 480V, etc.....



Dang it!


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
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01 Jul 2009 09:19 PM
Thank you all for your input and please excuse my frustration. Having researched the heck out of every little decision when we built this home - the geothermal DX system seemed to be a no brainer. Well we are now wishing we had gone a different way - sitting in southern Utah with the outdoor temp 104-106 over the past few days and the indoor temp a balmy 84 right now as the Earthlinked 5 ton unit keeps high pressure limiting, shutting down, and then when started again will blow cool air, but certainly not cool the room below the current temp. Installer evaluated yesterday and found a bad run capacitor (thus far a switch/solenoid in the back left-hand side and now the solenoid have been replaced in 3 months). He checked the pressures again - suction pressure 60-70 and the head pressure was 300 - 340 then it climbs; the return/liquid line gets hotter and hotter - kicks off. The insult to injury is - on top of the lack of AC - the electric meter is spinning. The suggestion of adding a condensor with fan to the vapor line to address the issue with groundloops (not giving off the heat efficiently) remains on the table. The house was supposed to only need 5 tons of cooling - I added an additional 2 on a separate zone to address the cooling I anticipate in the future in a home theater - with both running the house does not cool (mainly because of the 5 ton system). I unearthed the manifolds and verified as best I could that the lines were patent and hot going out and hot coming back. I am finding myself consulting another HVAC guy to put in an air source system in the attic so when we are away from the house this summer the internal temp won't be 90+ when we get back. I am thankful I have some cash coming back in the Tax Credit - a blessing when I initially decided on and paid for the system when the credit was a tiny $500 - a larger blessing given the current need for additional cooling installation. Am I missing something? I researched the decision, went with a reputable company and installer, spent the premium cash to get this system and am massively unimpressed and uncomfortable. I have been coming to this forum and availing myself of the expertise since 2007 - I value your honest opinions.


geo fanUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2009 09:51 PM
contact , or have the installer contact earthlinked . While I have no experience with that specific manufacturer , a few others here do and it is my understanding there support is second to none . I wouldnt give up yet , It is very clear to me that the problem is with the loop feild installation . You shouldnt have to pay a dime to have a properly operating system . Maybe others here can offer a cust service contact at earthlinked?


joe.amiUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2009 10:21 PM
Contact Clark (tuffluck). He's your best bet.
J


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
neotobeoUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2009 11:01 PM
I have been to the Earthlinked website numerous times and have not yet come across a customer service contact. If one has a contract I would be grateful.


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02 Jul 2009 07:40 AM
"service contact", not contract....there is a 10 year P/L warranty available if you don't have it yet.
Clark's e-mail is in every signature. Drop him a note.
j


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
JackHUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2009 09:12 AM
It looks like off the Earthlinked page, that NU-Tech is the closest Rep.. Clark is in Northern Utah, it looks like, but it would not hurt to call him. And Joe Parsons at Earthlinked would be a guy to contact there.

Have we determined that the Heat load calculations are accurate. and duct work is sized correctly, filter and coil are clean? Was this new construction?


Joe Parsons, EarthLinked Technologies, (863) 701-0096 or. jparsons@earthlinked.com

Nu-Tech Heating & Cooling
Allen Winters
Territory: south UT, south NV, north AZ
344 W. Brigham Rd.
St. George, Utah 84790
435-229-1608 phone
435-986-8371 fax

PINK'S
Clark Timothy
clark@pinksdx.com
Territory: north Utah, western slope CO, southwest WY, southeast ID
919 E. 200 N (111-5)
Roosevelt, Utah 84066
435-722-2623 phone
435-722-4172 fax


joe.amiUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2009 09:22 AM
Posted By JackH on 07/02/2009 9:12 AM

Have we determined that the Heat load calculations are accurate. and duct work is sized correctly, filter and coil are clean? Was this new construction?




....from the "help me help you" dept. I asked about load more than once but never recieved an answer. I've noticed it's common on these sites to recieve questions in reply to questions vs answers.
Not picking on this author, but a note for all that want to pick our brains, read our replies answer our questions so that we are best able to help you.
J


Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort!
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